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digitalcreations - WHOBAA MESSAGE FORUM
DigitalCreations FORUMS - Admin: Digitalcreations
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Cheekyprincess
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: Total confusion about when a Waler is not a Waler |
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Hi,
I am interested in breeding the 'waler' but have trouble with what can and can't be registered for whatever reasons.
I, as yet have purchased nothing due to the fact that I don't know what the ethics are in relation to why some can be registered with 1 society and not another.
I understand Clayton station is not an option and Newhaven is a given with WHOBAA but what about Guy Fawkes horses and others?
I feel that if I breed something from 2 horses that each can only be registered with different societies does than mean I can only register the foal as a part bred with each.
Can somebody please help me understand a little better so I don't end up going insane with confusion. 
Cheers
Deborah
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Gatekeeper
Site Mod
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Deborah,
The basics of the ethics and the application of these can be found on http.www.walerhorses.com and http.www.yarramalong.net.
WHOBAA may recognise horses from some stations or other areas as far as their "background and original breed influence" as having a prima face case to be considered further as individuals, yet have reservations about others because of insufficient or contradictory evidence re. those horses. Should WHOBAA subsiquently be satisfied with new evidence redarding the latter of course they would receive further consideration.
As an organisation primarily concerned with the defining, recognition and PRESERVATION of the Waler as a Breed WHOBAA must be as sure as practically possible that the criteria as formulated over many years is administered with all due care.
With horses other than those investigated by the Association regarding their "background" the burden of proof as to such is the responsability of the Applicant. In some cases we have contrdictory evidence, in others insufficient or unreliable, and in others that which can be substantiated.
I cannot answer for any other Society, however if you wish to pm me with specifics I will endeavour to answer and assist however possible.
Other than snippets of heresay re. the Guy Fawkes horses we know little, have not been approached to Register any. I suspect that originally they may have been Walers as we define them, however like many horses close to "civilisation" have been influenced over the years by the introduction of other breeds.
As a consiquence, there may be some that by pure chance have evolved "true", others not. That is the difficulty.
Then of course a horse that another Society may not recognise, WHOBAA may, and vice verca - I cannot generalise, would need specifics.
Hope this helps a little,
Regards,
Gatekeeper.
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They ask little, give all. |
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old mare
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Tasmania
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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 Cheeky princess, hallo and welcome,
Well, a Waler is a Waler.
It's a breed.
Some stations have em, some don't.
Some people breed em. some breed crossbreds.
Yo, honestly or otherwise.
Some breed hosses dey wishes was Walers, but ain't. At all at all, as me Oirish mate says....
It's all to do with genetics.
We're preserving and fostering an old and true breed, the only Austalian breed.
Yes, check out our Genetics section, Yarramalong or please, ask more!!!! Queries very welcome and good luck and welcome to the world of wonderful wonderful Walers!!! They are worth all you can put in....
get one and love forever......
all the best, Om
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Snowy Girl
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Whats with all these "Waler Stock horse" nags being advertised in this months horse deals???
" Mare & Clydie x Foal
Price - $2,200 - Allrounders
Waler Stock Horse mare and Clydesdale x foal born September 07. Mare is a very good breeder. Selling with foal and the possibility of being in foal. $2,200."
"October 2006 filly. Approx 12.5hh. Has good temperament, hooves regularly trimmed. Out of Waler Stock Horse. Sire: Reg Clydesdale"
What the hell is a waler stock horse???
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Some people are like slinkies - No matter how useless they are, you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs. |
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Cheekyprincess
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thankyou Gatekeeper for your reply and I will be asking more questions in the future, my partner and I have seen a colt we like but circumstances are still in the way of making the purchase.
Thanks for the welcome old mare but its who has em, are they really Walers and who recognises them as such is what I need to sort out.
Snowy Girl.. I saw that add too.. so when is a Waler a Waler or not a Waler?
This also prompts a question about a stud I came across whilst surfing on a Waler quest... "Emu Gully stockhorse and Waler Stud" They have a stallion Indee Topic.. a very nice looking boy, is this horse a "real Waler"?
If he is then we may have our answer about that add in horse deals Snowy, given that someone is breeding Stockhorse and Walers and possibly together.
Cheers and happy horsing around
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Snowy Girl
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hey CP - this colt you like - where is he from? Just curious as I have one advertised at the moment and am interested in what else is out there
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Some people are like slinkies - No matter how useless they are, you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs. |
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Cheekyprincess
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Snowy
The colt is from down near Jindabine, he was advertised in Nov horse deals by Newhaven bushfire, I think he is a rather handsome fella. I would be starting to think maybe its your colt lol
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Snowy Girl
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Look familier???
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Some people are like slinkies - No matter how useless they are, you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs. |
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Gatekeeper
Site Mod
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Cheeky,
Will do some homework and post what I find on that horse.
Many "Walers" were stockhorses before they were called Walers ( Calcutta, 1850's in order to differentiate horses imported from the Colony of NSW from "Capers" from Africa etc.
Totally different now in the vast majority of cases to horses called "Stockhorses" - i.e. as registered with the ASH. They started with Walers but have since registered all sorts including pure Arabians, T.B.'s, Q.H.'s, even European Warmbloods.
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They ask little, give all. |
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Cheekyprincess
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Gatekeeper that would be much appreciated, it will give me a really good base on just what is out there, which has got to be a good thing.
Snowy thats a pic of Storm and yes he looks very familiar, we are so keen to actually see him in the flesh, and just haven't managed to get there at the same time your there lol
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Gatekeeper
Site Mod
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Me again,
Can you pm me with a link to that stud or the horse - where you found same ? I can't find.
Ta,
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They ask little, give all. |
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Snowy Girl
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah CP - only here on the weekends now - am sure will work something out if he is still here. But never fear - the old grey mare is in foal again so will have some freshly baked foal blood this time next year....
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Some people are like slinkies - No matter how useless they are, you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs. |
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Gatekeeper
Site Mod
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi CP,
Had a look at that site - looks like they have Thoroughbreds, including those from old bloodlines, probably registered with ASHS, and are also calling them Walers. Quite possibly nice horses in their own right.
As such they would not comply with WHOBAA's definition or criteria for Registration, however ther may be more to the story that we have yet to discover.
Horses went overseas for military and other purposes and were on arrival noted as Walers purely because they were from the Colony, including TB's taken by officers as their own mount. Whilst those may conform with Yarwoods definition of a Waler being "An Australian Horse Abroad" WHOBAA's defininition and criteria takes much more into account.
Also, Kennedy for example states that there is no such horse remaining in Australia, the closest being a Cleveland Bay ! Others profess that a Waler is an Anglo Arabian, and others a Clyde x T.B. !
All the above are quick and easy conclusions remote from historical fact.
Re. horse, what are you looking for ? Maybe can help.
Regards and best wishes
_________________
They ask little, give all. |
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Cheekyprincess
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time to look into it gatekeeper, you asked what I am looking for so I will tell you the plan...
My boyfriend and I are looking at starting a B&B business and want to Breed the Waler on the same property, making more people aware of their heritage. We like the 'Officers mount' type so are looking at progressively purchasing mares that fit that type.
If the B&B is in the right location we also want to offer a carriage service to local restaurants and weddings with a heavier type of 'Waler', which in turn increases public awareness of these great little horses.
As you can imagine we want to do our homework first and run the option of having competition horses correctly bred, hence the interest in registration regulations and differences.
We are not in any hurry at this stage as we have not located a property yet and I have been under the cloud of quarantine due to my horse contracting EI back in October, so I wouldn't go near anyone with horses.
Hope this gives you a clearer picture of what I am all about
Cheers
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old mare
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Tasmania
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Howdy CP, Snowy, GK...
sorry Cp didn't realise you were a bit new at the Waler game.
We only register and recognise as Walers horses specifically bred in early days (1840's to 1940's) when they were needed not only pre internal combustion engine to get about and work, but for war - imperial forces. Bred for the trade to India.
So there was a huge market, to India - many many stations run for the purpose of horse-breeding. So all the breeds that went into the mix, made a type - and, bred true to this desired, marketable, capable type. And bred, and bred........then some bugger invented the motor and found the oil to run the bastard.....
(by the way - once a breed breeds true, it's a breed and no longer a type...as they would have told us, way back then.).........
Then, some bugger had to find what was left of the horses....and it's a never ending story....we hope......the search goes on, the horses have their lives in our hope
SO!! After almost a century, we are tracing those horses - pure descendants - and by golly!!! they are true blue...
Anyone from a tot to a granny can be safe on them yet, Walers are willing, exciting and makes you feel invincible - they are war horses!!!
Take them up the bush with a couple of good staghounds after game, take them in a formal hunt with hounds, jump anything, surefooted, never shy without a weeks warning, steady as a rock for dressage - mentally and physically - eventing, they love it like a lolly. In harness? Too easy, easy as.......
So you see what a breed it is!! - and that their genetics are as pure and old and original as we can possibly strive for.
It has taken a lot of striving....and protecting...
Snowy will tell you about hers, Gatekeeper about his, others theirs, me too (got a lifetime?!) - they are truly something else.
It's not just a Heritage, Patriotic, whatever flag waving excercise - just preserving a strong, hardy, loyal and extremely sensible breed of horse.
The bonus is, they are truly ours - Australian. Our only breed.
Once you get your eye in, you'll be going more heavy than officer I bet!!!
Just the bees knees!!! by the way, at the Kapunda sales in the height of the India Trade - Officers types were passed in or sold for threepence for charity - the heavier the horse, the bigger the money - 100's of pounds - see 'Kidman, the Golden Age' and such books for reference.
Good luck, and your heart is in the right place, so it will come to you in due course.........may the horse be with you
J
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