WHOBAA COMMUNITY MESSAGE FORUM - By digitalcreations

Just wondering about the WHOBAA definitions when it now comes to "present day breeding" of the waler horse.

In light of the historical fact that

"Suffolk Punch, Timor Pony, Percheron, Clydesdale, Welsh Pony and Thoroughbred were some of the breeds recorded as being imported to stations producing Walers." as I found on the Yarramalong website

and also this:


Nature precludes inbreeding through natural herd behavior, and with the large numbers and vast unlimited range our horses have enjoyed, this is most true for Walers. Origionally bred from selected breeds to create the right types, they have bred true for a century and a half, and become a breed. This breed was obvious well before the Boer War.
© Janet Lane 1988

I would like to know what WHOBAA's stance is on purebred Walers being bred & reg'd with them as opposed to partbreds and the use of these particular breeds being used to outsource new blood once again?

For example, I have an ASB / TB recorded mare, if I bred her to anyone of the above breeds, would her foal then be able to be eligible for Waler rego?

Or, would the foal, if ONLY sired by a "purebred" Waler be a purebred or would it only be a partbred?

I would really like to know the rules and regulations in concerns to breeding the Waler as we are wanting to breed carefully and correctly.

Maintaining the fact that the Walers are one of the least inbred types around, I think is invaluable to the breed, but I also appreciate the need for uniformity and regulation of some kind.

My "girls" are a 3/4 Arab 1/4 Stockhorse palomino mare
a purebred ASB / TB mare
a Newhaven Waler mare (rego pending) and

my daughter has a full "Newhaven" bred yearling filly and we are hoping to breed the same full sibling again this season. I am also hoping to breed the other two mares to the same stallion ~ Newhaven Bushfire (owned by Snowy Girl) as we were so VERY happy with our filly.

I guess my question stems from a concern that there doesn't seem to be very many Walers reg'd and being a rare breed and all, are we, if we don't allow "new" blood, from outcrossing back to the original breeds again, will we inevitably change the "face" of the old Waler we are trying to preserve, by effectively inbreeding it to the small numbers we have?

I'm new at this, so please excuse my ignorance if it comes across that way!!!


For those interested, you can view my horses at:

http://harcourtstud.spaces.live.com

PLEASE NOTE: while the mare named "Newhaven Phoenix" was purchased as a Waler, we are currently still in the throes of background checks etc to ensure she is the "genuine article", hence regos of her and her foal are currently pending.

Howdy there Harcourt Stud and welcome to the forum!
I will try and answer your questions.

First, about the Newhaven - if is genuinely a Newhaven, and I admit I don't know who you are! but we do have records of where most went, then don't worry too much about background checks, except how you yourself came by it. We are lucky enough to have extremely good info on the property's breeding background. We would probably know of your own horse through our records too. OK?

Second, why not let in new blood?! simply, the genes have changed. A Clydie or a Tb is not the same as 100 let alone 150 years ago. Walers have an old and pure genetic structure that would be quickly ruined by infusion of overpowering dominants. Also, lethals. As well as temp and conformation, the most important; congenital probs arise with modern versions of the old breeds. Not knocking them! But some breeds are more worthy of preservation than others, and it all boils down to who are their guardians. What their criteria is. Hence, how breeds change!
If one wanted to re-create a breed, then one may as well discard the original! If it exists, why throw it away and make a new one? If it is rare, then all the more reason to protect and foster it! Especially one so free from all faults and so human friendly. Keep it pure - meaning, if it ain't broke, then don't fix it. I am sure you would agree!

There was no Arab as far as we can find, in Walers. I too have had cross breds, purebreds, stock-horses, but I am the first to say they are not Walers. Some make tremendous crosses though! A part bred Waler is next best the the real thing. Bred a few myself. You will soon find the difference to the modern version of the so-called original crosses.
Walers are such easy keepers, in body, spirit and mind.

Last, we do not allow inbreeding at all, nor line-breeding - is any risk, you can get your horse and the potential mate DNA'd, either through us, or by a reputable lab. There can be a risk, with horses from the same station of being related, of course. I know it's hard, but some if us have done these hard yards for over 20 years! Hence breeding little - and wishing for new blood, and going to a heck of a lot of trouble to get it - welcome to the world of rare breeds! Keep on trucking!

Good luck, hope I have answered some questions, if not ask away - hope I can help, or others. If one does not ask, one does not learn - just like mistakes - so you're on the right track.

and I suggest if poss, you buy the Classifiers Manual also, it answers a lot of basic questions. Enjoy your horses, they need good owners! athe best, :d

Thanks for that, deeply appreciated.

Where can I buy the manual? I would be very keen to do a course to become a qualifier and to really get to know the breed better historically.

Peter already has all the info and is backtracking my mare for me as we speak. My mare is identical to his stallion Ace of Spades!!

I'm waiting for verification on my mare before I apply to register our filly out of her as she may be able to be reg'd as a purebred instead of a partbred, so fingures crossed!!

Hoping to repeat the breeding as I said this year, but after that, if my mare is a purebred, I will be looking at possibly making her available to other breeders under a mutual arrangement (but she would stay with us!!).

As for DNA testing, I think this is definitely the way to go, and would personally like to see it actually made mandatory for this breed while it is still so much in it's infancy (registry wise and getting to know who's who horse-wise).

Many thanks again!!

Good one. DNA sample (mane or tail hair with roots attached is mandatory when registering a horse with us. It's getting that way with most breeds actually, although in our case a bit more involved than just parental definition! Breed profile etc.
Hope your horse goes through ok. Ace is a handsome fella, eh?!
The Manual will be in the next newsletter, out very son, on this site (members only section). We charge only costs.
see ya round the traps!